yeah for $40 I think I would spring for the oem pads. If not I believe there are several members that run HAWK pads. You'll spend a good bit more on those. But unless you need the extra stopping power, IE you upgraded to larger rims. Then it is not really necessary.
I beg to differ, more braking power is always desirable! When it is time to do mine, I plan on going with Hawk pads, either ceramic or HPS.
And by saying that, I know it will start a whole storm of comments on rotor life. Well, boys and girls, i change rotors each and every time I do pads, end of discussion. I NEVER skimp on the important parts of the car that can save mine or my passengers life.
I didnt say it was not desireable. I said it was not necessary. Of course we all want what is best for our cars, especially if it can affect our own lives or that of our passengers.
Just be careful to get a pad compound that matches your needs. For example, the HPS Hawk pad may be good for the street, but their Black compound (unsure it it comes in the Rabbit II size, but using it as an example) would get you killed on the street. "Good" pads are only good when they are matched to your driving needs. The black pads take a lot of heat to make them work, but their operating temp is much higher which means that they won't fade on the track... on the street you won't be able to stop. :drive:
Sh*t, I'd pay extra money just to have brakes that don't squeak like hell everytime I stop. I've got a year old car that looks great, but sounds like a POS evertime I stop, and VW claims it's "normal"......
Nope. Just a high pitched squeak. VW deglazed them twice now, but it's done nothing to improve it. They tell me that it's because of the material that the brake pads are made out of.
To the OP, you MUST replace pads and rotors as a set...otherwise you will destroy the pads in less than half the time the first set wore out...it's a rule and it's been said already. Vw uses a soft organic compound and that is why they leave lots of brake dust and wear a bit faster than other types.
Drive 60 mph and do an emergency stop (smash brake as hard as you can) does your abs kick in? If so, upgrading brakes is not gonna make you stop faster. If abs kicks in with stock brakes or with super fancy aftermarket brakes, the car is gonna stop just as fast because the wheels are already locking up.
Thats what I was thinking. I was under the impression that you get a weird brake feel/feedback with warped rotors. Least thats how I knew there was something wrong with mine in the past (NOT VW BTW).
umm well i have this funny i would say vibration when i come to a stop at a light its like going over speeed bumps well obviously not thath bad but its make the whole steering wheel vibrate car has 11,300mi if it helps!
Nitro is very right in what he said about ABS type stops. I would like to add though that there are many times where I would like to stop quicker without having to drive the brake pedal into other floor and engage the ABS. I know this sounds contradictory, but when the ABS comes on, the car does not stop any sooner. With a good set of tires that will grip better, you can indeed stop in a shorter distance because the tires will not slip and the ABS will not come on, and this also improves if you have better brakes that don't fade as much and grip better. This is the sweet spot I like to be in.
Why would you have to drive the brake pedal to the floor. Didnt VW setup the braking system so if you quickly pressed the brake pedal it would automatically increase the braking force. That whole thing about how most people dont brake hard enough during an emergency, so they made this system to help you out.
brakes are easy to misunderstand. there's a LOT of things that work together to stop your car.
proper pad selection is important. if you get a full race pad that doesn't do anything until it heats up, you'll be all over the road until you get them hot. there are a fair amount of "autocross" friendly pads out there, tho, that work pretty good cold and have a fairly broad temperature range, especially for street driving.
rotors are just heat sinks. that's it. take material away from them (like cross drilling and slotting) and you're just carving a tread into a race tire. those are things that were done to overcome limitations of older pads (gassing). newer pads don't have this problem. (slotted/cross drilled rotors look really cool, tho!)
calipers need to be properly matched to the master cylinder. you get a set that moves more fluid than the master cylinder can provide and it won't matter how good they are. you still won't stop faster. caliper design plays a part as well; a floating caliper will flex a little more than a fixed caliper. but, that won't make much difference on the street.
braided lines help. rubber lines flex under pressure. this leads to a mushy pedal. again, not something you'd normally encounter on the street.
wheels are unsprung weight. the lighter the wheels, the easier time the brakes have stopping the car. trust me. giant heavy wheels won't stop quite as fast as lighter wheels will.
tires are what really stop your car. it doesn't matter if the pad can stop the rotor if it also stops the tire before the car. usually, the problem with stopping the car during a panic stop is the limitations of the tire. it's when you do this over and over again that the problem becomes the brakes (fade). the compound (and condition) of the rubber is probably more important than the width of the tire. but a close second would be tire width.
i run a car on r-compound tires on a track with a stock brake system aside from pads. i've never heat-soaked my brakes yet. if you can do it on the street, you're doing something wrong.
if you find a decent autocross pad for your car, you will get a great initial bite and decent heat range, but will ultimately trade performance for lifespan. they will usually create more noise and dust than a stock pad and chew up your rotors a little faster. all things you can probably deal with, if you like an ultra responsive pedal.
i wouldn't recommend a really aggressive pad like the hawk blues for the street. they won't ever get to the right temp unless you're being very reckless or you're doing hot-laps on a track. once you get them warm, tho, look out! you will stop very fast.
ABS is something that can be a best friend or a worst enemy. it can be very helpful to drivers who exceed the limitations of the tires. it can be a hindrance to drivers who are able to drive the car to its fullest potential. the good news is; not many drivers can do this.
i'm done typing for now. i'll talk more about weight transfer during braking later...
rotors are just heat sinks. that's it. take material away from them (like cross drilling and slotting) and you're just carving a tread into a race tire. those are things that were done to overcome limitations of older pads (gassing). newer pads don't have this problem. (slotted/cross drilled rotors look really cool, tho!)
I want to upgrade to slotted rotors, as cross drilled is, IMO, worthless due to the fact they are just that: drilled. Most companies dont cast the holes, that are affordable, in to the rotor. I have a set of PowerSlot rotors on my 88, and im very impressed, but i think i had the wrong pads cuz when i hit a puddle of water my brakes seemed to give out.
Anyone priced the GTI or R32 rotors +calipers? I would like bigger rotors, and I assume upgrading to GTI or R32 rotors = calipers to go along. Also, would VW do this for me if I paid them?
Money talks but, r32 brake system uses a Mk 70 abs/esp/asr/edl/haldex awd unit. The GTI and rabbit use the mk60 abs/esp/asr/edl or abs/asr unit. What I just said means your abs unit might not have the power to push R32 brakes around for proper abs and traction control operation. But, ifyou don't have ESP then it may work fine.
Im getting a set of front Mintex Reds, and the rears cost me 40 bucks from NGP.
I want to upgrade to slotted rotors, as cross drilled is, IMO, worthless due to the fact they are just that: drilled. Most companies dont cast the holes, that are affordable, in to the rotor. I have a set of PowerSlot rotors on my 88, and im very impressed, but i think i had the wrong pads cuz when i hit a puddle of water my brakes seemed to give out.
Up here in Canada, Canadian Tire has been running TV ads to flog ATE slotted rotors, claiming all the usual BS we have all heard before. then they go on to say the slots are a great wear indicator, as in when you can't see them it's time to change them. I laugh every time the ad runs.
Ditto. The slots are taking away surface area (bad) but allow the gas that creates a mushy pedal (brake fade) to leak out so you avoid brake fade. I've beat up cars brakes pretty good and even with non slotted or drilled rotors while going down a mountain in a cherokee towing a 5000lb trailer with NO trailer brakes making an emergency stop, I STILL never got brake fade.
Upgrade to the largest GTI brakes available. You will need calipers and need to bleed the brakes, but at least it will be compatable with your abs unit.
Whats the point of upgrading rotor size and keeping stock calipers? I havent done it but to me it seems if you use stock calipers your limited on the brake pad contact area. It should be the same as stock right? Unless you change the pads in which case you could have more surface area that will work with the larger rotor but you'll have less pressure than the stock system per square inch.
not sure anyone would do that any way, but if i upgraded rotors, it would prolly be the same size. yeah you would be limited on contact patch with stock calipers. wouldnt make sense not get corresponding calipers for larger rotors
Nice find Kiser and thanks for the response nitro. The ECS looks like an option, however, how willing would a dealer be to install and bleed for me. Especially after I have recently been in there for them to replace my master cylinder that went bad.
Would you really want to pay the dealers hourly rates though? Also according to the page you will not have to bleed your brakes because they retain the original calipers.
I'm still concerned about using the stock caliper. I dont see where it will give you more stopping power.
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