81 Rabbit Convertible No Electrical !!! ( Key To Start = Nothing !!! )

[Genevans]

Hello all

Our 81 Rabbit Convertible died while driving a few months back during the rainy and terribly wet season here in Vancouver BC. By died I mean everything stopped working not just the engine (electrical and everything).

We've had some leaking issues. A minor drippy knee and I think there may be water coming in down past the door windows in through the door and onto the floor pan which is generally pretty moist... (puddle on the floor)

Point being, all the moisture trapped in the car collects on the interior during the day when the sun heats up the car and as a result we've been having intermediate electrical problems as the condensation creates moisture all over the interior (including the fuse panel).

So I did my research and tried some electrical remedies as mentioned on the site.

Replaced the battery cables and battery grounds (battery to frame, frame to tranny)

Turned the key to start and the starter turned over a few times as the dash lights flickered. I heard terrible electrical flickering/snapping sounds and a puff of smoke rose from the fuse box : (

Later I tried charging the battery… turn the key to run position (not start) and heard the fuel pump kick in but much more slowly than normal. Turn the key to start and nothing from the starter. back to run position and everything including dash lights and fuel pump slowly dim and slow until there's no sign of life left in the car….

So I tried some more electrical troubleshooting…

Jumper cable from battery negative to frame/tranny & tried to start = nothing.

Jumped the starter off the battery and it works like a charm... but the car wont actually start/run.

This led me to replacing the ignition switch. still nothing.

Replaced the fuel pump relay. nothing.

So I'm thinking It's time to order a new fuse panel and replace some or all of the relays. just wanted to be sure this was the right course of action and to see if anyone had any suggestions. I know there's a wealth of knowledge out there.

(The interior moisture problem has been fixed by using a car cover and a dehumidifier and heater in the car while we're not driving, so we now have a dry interior)

All the best and thanks for your time.

Nathan

[Twocams]

Would try the old test light trick and check all the fuses....all grounds there behind fuse panel. All that moisture in fuse and relay panel could have fried some wires or relays. I would pull all the fuses and relays and use a hair drier or..... to dry things out. Disconnect battery first. And dont drive in the rain if it gets that wet inside.

Rich

[briano1234]

Twocams is dead on here. You had some smoking hot wires... You may have burnt one or three together. I would start by removing the fuse panel.
Then using a Stiff Brush and CRC-556 scrub every connector on the back side and every I mean every contact on the front. Take a before photo so you know where the relays go, as you will be removing every one, and Smell Them.... The one that smells fried, and you will know that smell is probably bad, and you can pop the covers off and usually see the BURN.

Inspect every connector that you remove when taking the fuse panel off, and scope out every individual wire for it being intact.
The I would look at the harness's leaving the connectors and following it as far as you can, Dash removal may be required.

Your 2 best friends are going to be a Voltmeter, and or a continuity tester.

After that you need to Get the Teaks stopped.

[amesghali]

what Rich & Brian said!

There is NO EASY FIX to a 30 year old electrical system - many of which have been subjected to prolonged exposure to moist weather and just sitting in it.

When I bought my 81 Caddy, about 70% of the electrical was erratic and not working. I started from one end and worked my way to the other end, taking apart all connections, cleaning, replacing, and putting back with dielectric grease. After which everything worked great - like new. No problems over a year now.

Good luck.

[Genevans]

Thanks so much for the replies!

So I went ahead and examined the fuse box (removing steering wheel and knee bar for easy access) and found that the wire from the starter was scorched and had popped right off its push-on connector. So I cleaned it, crimped a new push on connector and re attached it.

I also noticed two burnt wires in the back of the fuse box. the ones housed in the multi-colored plastic peices/plugs that push into the back of the fuse box. so I cleaned, crimped on new metal female ends onto the wires and slipped them into the plastic housing.

put everything back together and the electrical started working again! at least some of it...

lights are brighter since the new battery grounds and the starter is cranking without issue but there's no sign of the fuel pump now

key to run position and no sound from the pump... I remember the last sound I heard from the pump was it slowing down to complete stop and I remember reading somewhere that this is a sing of an electrical motor overheating or failing...? I've tried a new fuel pump relay so I don't think its that.

Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and if I possibly missed something wiring/fuse box related? I'm about to order a new fuel pump from German Auto Parts.... any better places to get one?

Thanks again for all the help!

Best,

Nate

[briano1234]

Well take the fuel pump relay out, and substitute the horn relay in its place for a test. If the fuel pump doesn't run all the time then you have another wiring issue or a bad fuel pump. In the Bentley there is a section on how to Jumper the relay out for testing, and the relays are a high failure item. You can remove it and pop the cover off, then resolder the connections to possible resurrect it. www.cabby-info.com had or has a how to jumper it out with pics.

[Genevans]

Thanks Briano1234.

So I tried a few things but am still at the same point as I last mentioned. Starter turns over but nothing from the fuel pump or ignition system...

I jumped the fuel pump by using the horn relay in the fuel pump relays place. heard what I thought sounded like a relay switching over (one click) but no sound of life from the fuel pump.

Later on I went ahead and jumped the fuel pump externally off a separate battery and it IS working... hmm

so my issues must be wiring related...? one of the previous owners wired up the fuel pump along the bottom of the car to the osx volt supply relay located in the engine bay... (this setup worked fine for us in the past)

The wiring is still fairly new and seems OK. I replaced the osx volt supply relay just for safe measure but no change...

I'm thinking there may be a problem in parts of the ignition system...? I have CIS and there are things like the HALL Generator, the Electric Ignition Control Unit, OSX Control Unit, Ignition Coil and so on....

Could it be any of those because as the starter turns there is no sound of spark or anything.... just the starter.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help with this!

Nathan

[briano1234]

The fuel pump relay pulses from the Hall sender. So I spose if the Hall sender or Generator is bad, then that could be an issue.
Verify that the timing is spot on......

There is the Hall sender, and a Hall effect generator two separate parts one in the distributor, and the other is usually mounted in the rain tray.

Make sure that all the connections an the coil are good.

But Verify timing...... www.cabby-info.com has the diagrams for Digifant as well as CIS.

There is a test in the Bentley to determine if the hall is bad, as it will spark. Ron's neo+Bentley may have it too. http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/