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Thread: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

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    Junior Member sohcsleeper is a jewel in the rough sohcsleeper's Avatar
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    84' rabbit crank, no-start

    1.8L rabbit top end
    2.0L jetta bottom end
    tdi tranny
    Everything is at tdc and ignition timing is spot-on. I'm getting spark to all four plugs, getting fuel to all four injectors. Cranks just fine. I have a full 12.6v at the battery. The only basic thing I haven't done so far is a compression test but timing is good so I should have compression. Is there anything I'm forgetting before I do a starter test, compression test, coil test? All the essential wiring seems to be in place for startup. I've heard this swap is fairly common and I'm new to the vw game but there seems to be something prohibiting it from firing no matter what. I've tried advancing and retarding the dizzy timing but it still cranks at the same normal speed with no hiccups. I can post pics and/or videos if need be.
    Thanks =]

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    Junior Member sohcsleeper is a jewel in the rough sohcsleeper's Avatar
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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    update: made two new grounds from head to body and block to body in case the plugs were grounding themselves to the head instead of sparking, still nothing....if anyone has some input it would be very helpful, maybe a diagram of ignition timing if possible, right now i've been going off of this picture but its more about firing order than anything: http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/s...utor-cap-rotor
    however if timing was off slightly it should at least misfire. but im not getting any kind of misfire or anything, just a steady cranking

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    Timing is everything:

    Tranny to the 0tdc mark.
    Cam dimple on the back side of the cam equal to the top of the valve cover tin (not the rebar)
    Dist rotor in the middle of the hash mark on the case. (remove the cap, and the rotor and shield, then replace rotor.)

    Leave the intermediate shaft alone... just move the dist, or if you have to remove it to adjust it, then replace it so that the rotor is in the middle of the hash.

    see: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/AdjustingTheTiming.pdf
    What do Divorces, Great Coffee and Cars all have in common?
    They all Start with good GROUNDS.
    Replace all of them that you can, 99 percent of flakiness will disappear.


    92, 93 Cabriolet.... 89, and 90 are Deceased.


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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    Quote Originally Posted by sohcsleeper View Post
    ...everything tdc and ignition timing is spot-on. I'm getting spark to all four plugs, getting fuel to all four injectors.

    Basic gas engines operation... if in fact you have the above correct, you have ignition! You haven't got something right.

    Do as Brian said.

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    so it doesnt really matter where the hash mark is facing on the housing? because i've been seeing that its supposed to face somewhere between 11 and 12 o'clock if looking at it from the front. i'm re-timing it just to be safe so right now i have the dimple on the flywheel lined up and piston #1 at tdc, i have the dimple on the cam lined up to the top of the valve cover tin facing the front of the car and both valves are closed, cam lobes are at about a 45 degree angle facing upwards. my problem now is the ignition timing, i can move the distributor housing to get the hash mark to line up with the rotor but theres no moving the rotor unless i take the belt off again and go tooth by tooth on the intermediate shaft to line it up.

  7. #6
    Super Moderator briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234 has a reputation beyond repute briano1234's Avatar
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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    Yes you can rotate the dist to get hte has to line up, and the hash is usually at the 11:30 to 1:00 position. I have had to take the Distributor out, to rotate it, just remember how much the rotor move as you pull it out, so that you can account for that on the insertion.
    What do Divorces, Great Coffee and Cars all have in common?
    They all Start with good GROUNDS.
    Replace all of them that you can, 99 percent of flakiness will disappear.


    92, 93 Cabriolet.... 89, and 90 are Deceased.


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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    alright, well my mechanical timing seems fine now, i have compression 130, 155, 160, 150...at tdc the rotor is a hair to the left of the hash mark but not by much. also the mark on the tranny is sitting just in between the dimple on the flywheel and the 6 degree btdc mark. still no misfire or any kind of firing when cranking. i would think it should still at least misfire if i was maybe a tooth off

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    If everything is lined up. Engine is at TDC on compression stroke. Just make sure that the rotor points to # 1 plug wire on the dist. cap when you put it back on. And that each plug wire fires in the proper order. Is the rotor firing the proper plug when it rotates. The hash mark is nice to have as a base. But thats not what fires the plug wires. You can move the plug wires around on the cap if you cant move the dist. housing enough to get # 1 to fire first. Then just put each wire in the proper order. Does that make sense?

    Rich

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    yeah the plug wires are in the right order, 1-3-4-2 going clockwise back to 1. and the rotor is facing towards #1 wire at tdc.

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    Are the plug wires firing at all? You can use a timing light and hook to each wire as you crank engine see if they fire. Or pull the wire off the plugs to see if they fire.....or

    Rich

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    lol yeah they fire, my buddy found that out yesterday when i shocked the piss out of him, i'll double check though

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    1 and 3 are sparking 2 and 4 arent

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    i still have compression and i still have fuel so i dont really know what else it could be. even with 2 and 4 not sparking, the engine should still fire at least.

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    You need to fix that little problem first getting all plugs to fire. #1 being as low as it is isnt helping much either. If 1 is 130 and 3 being 160 is a large compression gap. Usually you want to see no more than 10-15 psi between the lowest and the highest. But that wont keep it from running. But you need to get all 4 plugs to fire. Make sure the plugs arent all fuel soaked also. There will still be fueled being dumped into the cylinder even though its not firing at the plug.

    Rich

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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    yeah i've been taking the plugs out every time and drying em off, and im not sure why 2 and 4 wont spark i'll try checking voltages or something, i'll update the thread again when i get 2 and 4 to spark, thanks for all the help so far.

  17. #16
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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    Well it can only be a few things. Plug wires....bad. Have you used other wires..see if they fire in 2 & 4. Ground the wire on metal about 1/8 in. away. Have someone turn engine over see if it sparks. Is the cap good and rotor. Is the rotor turning...cap off, turn engine over. Are the plug wires pushed all the way into the cap. If wires are firing...are plugs gaped right and and no gas on them. just a few things to try. Have fun.

    Rich

  18. #17
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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    What plugs are you running, and have you checked the resistance of them? I have seen similar issues as 2 of the brand new plugs in the sets I bought were bad out of the box.

    NGK
    What do Divorces, Great Coffee and Cars all have in common?
    They all Start with good GROUNDS.
    Replace all of them that you can, 99 percent of flakiness will disappear.


    92, 93 Cabriolet.... 89, and 90 are Deceased.


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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    i'm running ngk v powers, i checked the gaps and they're good but the plug wires are where its not sparking, i'll get some plug wires, a cap, and rotor at advanced today since they're basically dirt cheap and see if it changes anything. also, as TwoCams said, theres still fuel being dumped into the cylinder even when plugs dont spark so im pretty sure this things flooded. whats a good way to dry it up in there?

  20. #19
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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    Pull the plugs and wait, or blow air across the top of the plug hole as that will venturi the fumes out.
    What do Divorces, Great Coffee and Cars all have in common?
    They all Start with good GROUNDS.
    Replace all of them that you can, 99 percent of flakiness will disappear.


    92, 93 Cabriolet.... 89, and 90 are Deceased.


  21. #20
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    Re: 84' rabbit crank, no-start

    I dont know how much cranking you have been doing. But the gas can wash your cylinder walls down...there is always a thin oil film on the walls. There for loosing some of your compression. The gas can there fore leak past the piston rings and get into the oil. So you need to check your engine oil with dip stick. Just smell it and if it smells like gas and not oil you need to change it once you get it started. Cause you have diluted the oil and can cause engine bearing failure. just something to also consider.

    Rich

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