Diesel Fuel Additives
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    Junior Member Marc Held is a jewel in the rough Marc Held's Avatar
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    Diesel Fuel Additives

    Hi,

    I was wondering if I should use a Diesel Fuel Additive on a regular basis to maintain my 2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDI. If not, what about during the winter? Are the modern ULSD Fuels delivered with anti-gelling mixtures in the winter?

    Thanks for sharing!

    Marc

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    New Member viciouscycle is a jewel in the rough viciouscycle's Avatar
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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    Marc, I am brand new to the TDI fold but I can share my research, which boils down to the diesel fuel sold in the US is of inferior quality and lacks the lubricity of European diesel. As a result, there appears to be a problem with the fuel pump going, which takes with it about $6,000 in other parts, for which it seems VW's response is to blame the problem on the fuel. Although it appears a snotty response knowing there is a problem, VW is probably also technically correct. This appears to be a non-existent problem in Canada where our diesel is made to European standards. My plan will be to carry a lubicating additive any time I travel in the States. My primary source of information was the TDICLUB.

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    Junior Member Marc Held is a jewel in the rough Marc Held's Avatar
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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    Hi "Vicious"

    Your research sounds extreme. Since I wrote this post, Ive put on 19,000 miles with no ill affects. The only development worth noting here is VW just issued a recall notice on the fuel lines. Apparently, vibration at certain RPMs causes premature wear. The solution is installing 4 vibration dampers around the lines.

    If you have a link to your research on the TDICLUB, id be intrested in reviewing it.

    Many thanks for your post.

    Marc

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    Hi Marc, I am also new to owning diesels but I have been researching heavily since I got my first diesel a couple of weeks ago. There are many advocates that swear that fuel additives will do no good on new OR old diesels. They are firm believers in changing your oil frequently, having injectors and glow plugs serviced when necessary and using the proper Volkswagen approved 505 synthetic oils. Along with the regular maintenance of the air, fuel, and oil filters I would feel quite satisfied in doing just that with my new VW. All of this done properly eliminates the need for any additives.

    Some high mileage diesels seem to show success (increased MPG, and "pep") using products like LubroMoly Diesel Purge which attempt to clean out injectors and deposits for a short term fix.

    Cetane boost almost sounds feasible but I compare this to octane boost for gas engines. The octane boost you buy for $10 a bottle only actually increases the octane rating of your gasoline by something like 0.1. I mean if the $10 bottle changed your entire tank of gas octane rating from 91 to 98+ as advertised on the bottle, why would all the racers be paying hundreds of dollars for a couple of hours worth of high octane fuel for a track day? I digress. Maybe I've overlooked something regarding cetane additives but I am pretty sure the price tag of a dose of cetane is not going to increase my fuel economy or acceleration enough to pay for itself.

    There is a significant discussion about the lubrication qualities of the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel that we now have at the pumps. It is constantly popping up in threads in all of the diesel forums. Whether the lubrication in the ULSD is lacking or not I cannot say. I have only heard one or two horror stories about pumps seizing and it was on the internet. I have never heard of such things happening to anyone in real life in my area. Nevertheless one of the best solutions I have heard of to this "problem" is adding a bit of two-stroke oil to each tank of diesel. There are a number of reasons why I favor this method to address the lubrication issues. This oil is cheap, designed to burn in a combustion chamber, and has excellent lubrication qualities. Normally two stroke oil is used in chain saws and motocross racing bikes among other things. In non oil-injection two stroke gas engines I usually mix at a ratio of 32:1 gasoline to oil. That little bit of oil mixed in with the gas is the only lubricant used in the entire two stroke engine. The little engine in my chain saw screams for hundreds of hours during every summer/fall and after ten years it still works great, all because that little bit of oil in the gas keeps the crank bearings, rod bearings, piston, rings, and cylinder properly lubricated. I have been considering adding two stroke oil to my diesel at the recommended ratios floating around out there at somewhere around 320:1. However having to carry around a bottle of two stroke oil and a funnel in my car for every tank fill-up is not my desire. I suppose a little 5oz bottle wouldn't be so bad to carry around...

    Just my 2 cents on some research I've been doing on this topic. YMMV. Hope it will help!

    Andrew

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    Another direction, I am BRAND NEW, and here is my question
    I have over 100 gallons of light weight oil, and 10 gallons of Jet engine Oil ( 1010) which is like 3 in 1 oil, not like 30 wt AND 100 gallons of "concrete form Oil"

    adding them to my fuel in my 2004 Passat TDI (Pump D), should add sulfer & boost the millage, help lubricate fuel system, and every gallon I burn is a gallon of Diesel I dont have to buy. A lot thinner than Bio D. ( its about 10W ) , mixing it in at about 10 to 15 % it should flow well even at temps down to 20 deg. F
    BUT, will I learn a hard lesson the expensive way ? I would like to hear from someone that has done it, a LOT, or someone with an advanced degree thats relevent

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    I have 213,000 miles on my 2013 Jetta TDI, and I have not used ANY fuel
    additives on a regular basis. In the USA, they change the fuel for winter,
    and I have been in -13 conditions, the fuel did not gel up. Even had a 1/4 tank
    in -2 weather, did not gel up.

    I have tried a cetane booster, maybe four times... Saw no difference in anything.

    The only time you need a fuel additive would be for when the car is going to SIT for
    a long time to prevent algae growth.

    These high pressure fuel pumps are not to be trifled with! The only thing I add, is every
    3rd tank, a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil, to add lubrication to the fuel. Some people add
    2-stroke oil, which is bad for the DPF, if you do not have one, then you can use it.

    I have never, EVER used anything that prevents gelling in winter, this will be the 3rd winter
    coming up, that I have owned the car.

    Just in case: Using the off-road diesel does no good, it is now the exact same fuel as what
    you get at the pumps, and has been since 2009 in the USA. Off-road is simple for off road
    commercial farm use, like farm equipment, generators, nothing that hits the highway. There
    is no difference in he fuel anymore. Off-road is dyed RED, on-road diesel is GREEN, that's it.
    Off-road does not have any taxes, so it's generally .53 cents cheaper. You can't buy it
    without credentials...

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    what I am really getting at is not anti gel, or extra Lub, or injector cleaner, but

    can I burn light weight oils mixed in with my diesel fuel ?

    without harm to the Pump Duse injectors ? I know with 1980's injectors, we could burn deep fryer oil, etc etc, dump it in ! but can we add some clean motor oil, for milage boost ? and can we add light weight oil for milage boost AND because its free to me ?

    I have 50 gallons of 50 wt motor oil ( clean, free and un used, but old stock)
    100 gallons of concrete form oil, new but old stock
    10 gallons of 1010 turbine oil
    all free, and all should boost my mileage

    but will they harm a 2004 Passat TDI ?

    older, not Pump D engines its fine to burn
    Newer, more emissions equipment and should not burn it
    thanks
    ed

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    If you don't have a DPF, you can add 2-cycle oil for that matter... Harm the 2004 Passat TDI?
    No, but help? That is the question. You should be more concerned with CAM lobe wear, not the
    fuel system.

    You cannot burn deep fry oil without the kerosene mixed with it. Bio diesel is a mixture
    of them, and only 1 gallon of Kerosene to the 30 or 50 gallons of filtered fry oil. It's
    also a tackier fuel, and can gum up the fuel tank and filter if not done correctly.

    I would not be putting MOTOR oil in the fuel, nor turbine oil, they will NOT increase
    MPG, it's not fuel. You need to know the flash-point of those oils, verses the
    flash-point of diesel, which is an oil... I use Marvel Mystery Oil, have been, and I
    now have 213600 miles on my TDI, all stock, nothing replaced, not even the timing
    belt.

    If the flash-points are higher, it won't do anything for MPG. If it's too low, you'll
    get pre-ignition and also hurt MPG and performance. CETANE is the additive if
    you want to play with MPG and performance. Cetane speeds up the burn of the
    diesel fuel, so it can completely burn the fuel before the next stroke.

    If you want to lube the HPFP and injectors, then use low ash 2-cycle oil, or Marvel
    Mystery Oil. IT does not have to be a hard core lube like motor oil.

    The reason diesels have much more torque is because of the "power stroke." Gas,
    ignites, burns completely off right away. When diesel is ignited, the fuel burns the entire
    downward stroke after compression, thus continually pushing the piston down, for more
    torque. If you mess with this stroke, say, burn the fuel faster with more Cetane, then you
    can loose torque because it burned off too fast. Put in an oil with a higher flash-point,
    then you get an incomplete burn for more exhaust pollution.

    Diesel fuel is assigned a flash point between 100F and 160F

    Turbine oil flash-point is >302F / >150C
    Concrete oil flash point is 300F
    SAE 50W Flash Point is 390F

    Those values can vary based on the manufacturer, nut not much...

    You would be severely crippling your engine performance with those other oils added to the fuel.

    The flash point of Marvel Mystery Oil is 128F, this is what I put in right before fueling, one whole
    quart, and I fill up.

    Oh, and by comparison? The flash point of gasoline is negative 45 degrees Fahrenheit.
    It is at that point, enough of the liquid vaporizes to create a combustible gas.

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    Vegetable oil flash point is approximately 621F

    I would have ADDED that to my post, but when I "edit" I get a 100% blank frame, with no text in it, and
    if I type anything, it replaces the entire post with what I typed, only. BEEN having this problem since I
    joined. I can't edit my posts because of that.

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    Thank you !
    my main goal was to improve mileage, by adding sulfur, I hoped. Even if the MPG did not rise, every gal of Oil I burn would be a gal of diesel I didn't have to buy. The Oil is free and needs to "go away" . I never considered flash point. I cant thank you enough for taking the time to give me a free education.

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    Not all sulfur is the same AND, it eats steel. The lack of sulfur in the fuel now, is NOT
    what is causing less lubricity, it is the process they use to remove the sulfur that caused less lubricity.
    It is not the sulfur that is the lubricant in Diesel fuel. Sulfur is not a lubricant in of itself, but it can
    combine with the nickel content in many metal alloys to form a low melting point eutectic alloy that can
    increase lubricity. Adding sulfur back into the fuel will not do anything but make it smell bad, and
    increase particulate size; which is also not goof for DPFs. The reason that sulfur was removed in the first
    place was for EPA laws, because sulfur in diesel fuel is the single largest fuel component that effects
    particulate emissions. The sulfur gets converted to H2SO4 during combustion which makes it an aerosol
    that is measured as particulate. Diesel engines could not meet new EPA particulate standards if they did
    not use ultra low sulfur fuel. This emission from higher sulfur is said to cause Acid Rain, and since sulfur
    eats metal, you can figure that part out...

    If it is lubricity you want, and do not have a DPF, you add marine 2-cycle oil to diesel. There is
    a low ash formula now, but still not safe for DPFs. SuperTech TWC3, found at just about any
    Walmart. TWC3 is the certification you need to look for in any 2-cycle oil. 1oz for every gallon
    of fuel. I use Marvel Mystery Oil, which is also good.

    MPG, is going to be CETANE. You have to find the right amount of Cetane to add to max out
    your MPG. Cetane changes the burn rate of the fuel, the more cetane, the faster the fuel
    burns. Burn to fast, you burn all the fuel off before the power stroke is completed, you lose
    torque. Gas ignites faster, pops the piston back down. Diesel burns slow, and burns during
    the whole downward stroke after ignition, called the power stroke. This continual pushing
    downward on the piston is what gives a diesel more torque. So, if the fuel burns off before
    the stroke, you lose some torque, but get complete fuel burn. Not enough cetane, you waste
    fuel as it all does not get burned and comes out the exhaust as black smoke. The Cetane that
    is in the fuel at the pump is supposed to be just about optimal.

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    no interest in Lube. Just in MPG, I am under the impression that when the sulfur is removed, so is the energy, and MPG drops.
    DPF ? trying to find out for sure.
    But it sounds like I cant add anything for any reason if I have a DPF - I added a squirt of Inj cleaner, 50 miles later I am in limp mode, with codes for MAF and accelerator flap motor ( throttle body motor) - coincidence I hope.
    Thanks very much !

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    Re: Diesel Fuel Additives

    Th only thing you can add is cetane booster, ant-gell, and formulated cleaning agents with a DPF.

    I use MARVEl MYSTERY OIL, only, lubes and cleans. If you're getting 45+ MPG, you don't need to
    mess with anything. Thee DSGs and Standard trans get the better MPG. The regular automatic
    slush box you get less due to the parasitic loss; the trans eats 20+% of the HP as compared to 15+%
    with a standard or DSG.

    If you have a 2009 and up, you have a DPF.

    The only thing that will change MPG is the Cetane level, too much = low plus lost power, to little
    = less MPG, more pollution. YOU have to find the right amount to add to optimize MPG.

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